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ihaveonlyme
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Quote ihaveonlyme Replybullet Topic: Need opinion on scenario
    Posted: April/03/2012 at 2:30am
There is a debate amongst my friends and I so I want everybody's opinion. It's about a situation and it goes as follows:

A man and a woman are fooling around and the woman is on top. The guy tries to feel up the girl and she slides his hands down and says, "I can't" so the guy stops. Then the girl instigates and starts kissing him again. A little bit later she lays down, pulls the guy on top of her, and they continue fooling around. If you're the guy would you take that as a physical yes and that she was just playing hard to get? Give your response then respond to the next part.

After you've been fooling around a while she gets up, leads you to the bedroom, and you two hook up (consensual on both sides). On the way to the bedroom, and knowing why you're going to the bedroom, would it be safe to say that she's giving the green like and that she was playing hard to get?

Please explain why you feel the way you do. If you feel that "no means no" then if the girl really meant no why would she instigate and start things again then lead the guy to the bedroom?

The debate amongst my friends in this scenario is up to this point. The rest of the scenario is once in the bedroom the girl is on top of the guy and the girl instigates the sex.



Edited by ihaveonlyme - April/03/2012 at 2:46am
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evalution
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Quote evalution Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 8:59am
"instigates" is an odd word choice, to me. i think that the word "initiates" fits better, but that is a reaction from me regarding rape culture and the idea that "women really do want it".

consent is not something to EVER guess on. if you don't get a yes, you don't have sex. do people follow this all the time? no. should they? if they want to avoid guessing and possibly a rape situation, yes.

moving to a bedroom should not be taken as consent. it could mean she wanted more privacy or was uncomfortable where she was before. if the guy wondered if that meant she wanted to have sex, he should have asked. if he can't ask that of the person, he probably shouldn't be attempting to sleep with the person, anyway. i don't believe it's appropriate to ever take someone's actions as playing "hard to get" in this type of situation. it's much easier to slip those few words in than to deal with a much larger issue later.

look up "consent can be sexy" if you'd like. there's a big movement (especially in colleges/for college-aged folk) to push for consent from both parties all the time.
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Space Mutant IV
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Quote Space Mutant IV Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 1:22pm
Yes, I take it as a physical yes.

Yes, it would be safe to say she's giving the green light.

Sure, there are some situations where the legality is questionable. That's why courts and legal struggles exist. They are, at this time, the best way to deal with situations that are unclear.

But to insist that you have to spell it out every single time you want to have sex is to take away common sense in human relationships and replace it with some construct that does not belong there. It is 100% unfiltered bullshit, and it will continue to be 100% unfiltered bullshit until the sun burns out and swallows this rock. Possibly even after.
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that1chick
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Quote that1chick Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 2:25pm
Consenting to a sexual act does NOT mean consenting to sex.

Maybe the girl draws the line at oral.  You might think a girl pulling off her panties is a green light, but it's not.  You might think a dick in the mouth is a pretty good indicator of consent, but it's not. 

There is no such thing as a "physical yes".  Unless the girl is climbing on a guy's dick, you can't be sure that she is consenting to actual sex.  And in that case, maybe the guy isn't. 

Unless there is verbal, mutual consent, there is no consent. 

If a girl has to say "stop"... you've already violated her.


(And, just to clarify, none of these gender-specific pronouns are absolute.  Men can be victims too.)


Edited by that1chick - April/03/2012 at 2:27pm
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ihaveonlyme
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Quote ihaveonlyme Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by that1chick

Consenting to a sexual act does NOT mean consenting to sex.

Maybe the girl draws the line at oral.  You might think a girl pulling off her panties is a green light, but it's not.  You might think a dick in the mouth is a pretty good indicator of consent, but it's not. 

There is no such thing as a "physical yes".  Unless the girl is climbing on a guy's dick, you can't be sure that she is consenting to actual sex.  And in that case, maybe the guy isn't. 

Unless there is verbal, mutual consent, there is no consent. 

If a girl has to say "stop"... you've already violated her.


(And, just to clarify, none of these gender-specific pronouns are absolute.  Men can be victims too.)


Mel, if a girl is going to take her panties off and give/receive oral but doesn't want to have sex don't you think it should be on her to say she doesn't want to have sex? I know if it were the other way around and I didn't want to have sex but I was down for oral I would make sure to tell the girl. The debate between my friends and I is that the girl never says "Stop" or "No." It's that she says "I can't," the guy stops, then she starts fooling around with him again and eventually pulls him on top of her. In my opinion if a girl is going to send mixed signals like, especially if she never gave a solid "no" or "stop," then it should fall on her to say whether or not she wants to have sex.
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Space Mutant IV
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Quote Space Mutant IV Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 3:53pm
How big an issue is this in the states?
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ihaveonlyme
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Quote ihaveonlyme Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 4:15pm
I have no idea how big of an issue it is over the whole US. One of my friends that I was talking to about this is taking an adult sex-ed course at school and apparently Montana is the only state where if someone puts their finger in a girl without her consent it is considered rape. Everywhere else it's sexual assault. 
You might not share my views on politics, religion, or several other notable topics; if you ever attain my level of knowledge, you will, though.
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that1chick
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Quote that1chick Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 4:29pm
I just think that type of thinking is what makes girls blame themselves for being raped.

Here's a story.  A friend of mine was making out with a guy.  She ends up following him into a bedroom and they get naked.  She realizes she is making a mistake says no.  He doesn't stop.

And she says it's her fault because she "knew what was going to happen if she followed him into the bedroom."

But she felt violated.  And she was... because she was raped.

And she will always feel like it was her fault.

And that is bullshit.

This "mixed signals" thing is bullshit.  If you think you are getting conflicting signals, then you need to stop and clarify.  End of story.
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Space Mutant IV
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Quote Space Mutant IV Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by ihaveonlyme

I have no idea how big of an issue it is over the whole US. One of my friends that I was talking to about this is taking an adult sex-ed course at school and apparently Montana is the only state where if someone puts their finger in a girl without her consent it is considered rape. Everywhere else it's sexual assault. 

Holy shit. That means one of two things, both of which suck. I have no idea how anyone could have ever wanted to make legal precedences about this. 1, to have sex, you need proof of innocence. 2, to have sex, you need to mutually agree in a contract, and non-contractual sex is outlawed. That is some South Park-type bullshit right there. You guys are seriously parodying yourselves.

Edited by Space Mutant IV - April/03/2012 at 4:53pm
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Quote Space Mutant IV Replybullet Posted: April/03/2012 at 4:35pm
Mel, no doubt what you described there is a crime. But the crime consisted in not stopping at the word no.
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