Print Page | Close Window

I completley understand minimums..

Printed From: BodyMod.org
Category: Body Mods
Forum Name: Tattoos
Forum Discription: Stories, studio suggestions, questions, etc.
URL: http://www.bodymod.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17523
Printed Date: October/01/2020 at 2:53pm


Topic: I completley understand minimums..
Posted By: Euphoric
Subject: I completley understand minimums..
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 8:43pm
But really?! So my hamster tattoo was the shop "minimum" I love the shop, they have done the 2 good tattoos I have (Hammy and paper airplane) and was $80 each. Thats the shop's minimum.
 
Well I go in, and all I want is a outline of a puzzle piece the size of a quarter or a nickel..
And its still $80.
 
I know the $80 is the minimum, but I figured they would be nice since I been a good customer for almost 5 years but they say they cant.
 
I am sorry, but I feel like a simple black line the size of a quarter isn't fair to charge nearly $100 for.
 
I really don't want to go to another shop because everytime I do, the person messes up, no matter how good thier profolio is.
 
:/
 
 


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...



Replies:
Posted By: LauraOFace
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 8:53pm
If they are good. Stay with them. You trust them.

Quality is everything. 80 dollars is alot for an outline but 5 yrs is alot of trust.


-------------
Gone wandering


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 8:58pm
Lol, actually the artist who did my paper airplane called me and said he would do it for the "Normal" minimum of $50.
Its still a lot.
 
How much woud I tip for that? When he did my airplane I gave him %25 which ended up being $100.
 
I always tip my piecer there at least 20%
 
But
1. This calls for no real creative talent or artistry
2. If I tip 25% it comes to 62.50 which is a wierd tip of $12.50


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: LauraOFace
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 9:02pm
Tip what feels right.
Dont do statistics


-------------
Gone wandering


Posted By: kcir
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 9:09pm
80$ is a hell of a minimum.  what studio is this?

-------------
http://www.cutinto.me">


Posted By: wormbuffet
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 9:19pm
if i asked my tattoo guy for that, he would not charge me, just sayin.

80 is a fuckin lot for a minimum.
minimum went out the door for me and my tattoo guy when we got close. i think after five years they would give you a bit of a deal there :S maybe get your money worth and get a couple small things? haha

-------------


http://www.mmarly.tumblr.com - RAW TUMBLR SHIT


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 9:20pm
Urban Art Tattoo.
I see either Sam, Justin, or Trojan.
Trevor is my #1 piercer, I won't let anybody else touch me.


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by wormbuffet

if i asked my tattoo guy for that, he would not charge me, just sayin.

80 is a fuckin lot for a minimum.
minimum went out the door for me and my tattoo guy when we got close. i think after five years they would give you a bit of a deal there :S maybe get your money worth and get a couple small things? haha
 
Well I am close with the piercer and the assistant, but I wouldn't say one tattoo artist, since I have only gotton 2 done from thier.
Hm maybe..
 


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: wormbuffet
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Euphoric

Originally posted by wormbuffet

if i asked my tattoo guy for that, he would not charge me, just sayin. 80 is a fuckin lot for a minimum. minimum went out the door for me and my tattoo guy when we got close. i think after five years they would give you a bit of a deal there :S maybe get your money worth and get a couple small things? haha

 

Well I am close with the piercer and the assistant, but I wouldn't say one tattoo artist, since I have only gotton 2 done from thier.

Hm maybe..

 


iunno. i'd be really hurt if my tattoo guy did that to me. he always charges me a lot less for tattoos than most people though.

-------------


http://www.mmarly.tumblr.com - RAW TUMBLR SHIT


Posted By: wormbuffet
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 10:32pm
also, being as its such a simple tattoo, i would find a shop that might charge you less. i wouldnt pay anywhere near 80$ for the tat you described.

-------------


http://www.mmarly.tumblr.com - RAW TUMBLR SHIT


Posted By: heatherfeather
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 11:18pm
you dont have to tip a perfect percentage... so if the total with the tip is 62.50 you can always go to 65.00 or go down to 60.00...




Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 11:33pm
Its like her tattoo..just a different "piece"
http://www.bodymod.org/mods/mods.aspx?ID=35108&modtype=Tat&lm=1 - http://www.bodymod.org/mods/mods.aspx?ID=35108&modtype=Tat&lm=1
 
Well, I will go talk to them about it in person, that will probably help.


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 11:38pm
As you said, it's a small tattoo that shouldn't cost much.
True.
Think from his view point:
This bitch is making me set up all of my shit for something that is practically nothing.

Even if you just wanted a dot, you need to buy an hour of time.

You could think of a larger tattoo that you want.
Wait, save, and come up with a large piece.
Buy several hours of his time,
and when he is finished with your piece,
consider the small insignificant tattoos that can be done after
to be free.


-------------


Posted By: LauraOFace
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

As you said, it's a small tattoo that shouldn't cost much.
True.
Think from his view point:
This bitch is making me set up all of my shit for something that is practically nothing.

Even if you just wanted a dot, you need to buy an hour of time.

You could think of a larger tattoo that you want.
Wait, save, and come up with a large piece.
Buy several hours of his time,
and when he is finished with your piece,
consider the small insignificant tattoos that can be done after
to be free.


I quite agree.
It may be small but time is money.


-------------
Gone wandering


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/20/2009 at 11:57pm
I guess I never thought of that :)
Well, I don't want any large pieces right now (In the future)
So I probably will pay the minimum :)


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: wormbuffet
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Euphoric

I guess I never thought of that :)
Well, I don't want any large pieces right now (In the future)

So I probably will pay the minimum :)


i forgot to say this, i got a a tattoo done for 60$ (ten dollars above the minimum at my shop) and kindly asked my tattoo guy if he could do a small one in a different spot while he had the stuff out. and he did.
it's the same size as the one you described, so maybe you could try that when you have a larger tattoo idea in mind? just offer to pay a bit extra or something

-------------


http://www.mmarly.tumblr.com - RAW TUMBLR SHIT


Posted By: Cale
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 1:32am
My shop has a $50 minimum. $80 seems high! But if it's a reputable place that does good work, and you enjoy going there, then maybe it's not so bad. :)

Either way, you still have to consider that they have to pay for their materials and such, and some shops make you supply most of your things. They probably don't pocket $80 either....maybe half or less. It could also be that maybe the shop owner doesn't allow them tattooing under the shop minimum, even if it is something ridiculous tiny.


-------------
Miss Cale
True Blue Tattoo ~ 303-989-6824
305 S Kipling St, Lakewood, CO 80226
http://www.facebook.com/piercingbymisscale - facebook.


Posted By: Keiran1980
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 6:59am

At my tattoo shop (I say "my" because I spend so much time there not because I work there) the minimum charge is 25 british pounds (about 40 dollars). The smallest tattoo my tattooist has done was three lines each about a quarter of an inch long. He told the customer that they could get another small tattoo as well at the same time and still pay only the minimum charge, but they were happy to pay that much for one tiny tattoo.

Maybe when you get the jigsaw piece you could also get another small tattoo done and both together would still be small enough to be a minimum charge tattoo if you see what I mean.


-------------
"Everyone is from somewhere.
Even if you've never been there." - Ian Anderson


Posted By: QOTSA90
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 10:44am
80euro is the minimum here for most shops, not sure what that is in dollars, but thats about as low as it goes over here.

What you have to remember is theyre not just charging you for the tattoo, the price also includes scrubbing their station/equipment down, preparing the stensil, DOING the actual tattoo then scrubbing down once finished with you.

Also, youre probably lucky the artist wasnt pissed at you for asking for such a small thing, some would likely charge you out of the ass for wasting their time with something so small.. when after all.. they could just turn you away in favour of starting a huge portfolio piece on someone else.

-------------
Would anyone mind if I used the Bodymod Skully next time?


Posted By: xevious
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 11:20am
you assume that most tattoos we do are larger pieces. If someone came asking me for a puzzle piece, I'd charge em the minimum, and do it, and not be angry or anything. Some people want small tattoos. It's a fact, and it's what they want. PLus, that may be the only tattoo that artist does on that particular day. Going home with my half of that $80 is better than going home with nothing. Hell, ive gone home with over $400 in a day, from doing nothing but tiny tattoos, where I only charged the minimum.

-------------
I have titties.


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 12:13pm
Yeah, I don't think I am lucky I think I just don't have a douchebag as a artist. Not everyone in this world wants a "large" piece, and I think if the artist is truly dedicated to his art and work, he wouldn't mind doing a small piece.
I really believe in "Its what the customer wants" and I am sorry, but if I want a damn line I want it. I don't care if I want a dot. It's my body, I shall do with it what I please, and most artisits I think are willing to help people achieve that goal.
 
And good point Xevious, if you spend your workshift doing 1 large tattoo, you lose other clients and possibly money. Thats not always the case, but sooner or later any artist does a "smaller" piece.
 
I understand minimums and why they charge. I will probably ask for something else along with the tattoo.


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 2:47pm
" Topic: I completley understand minimum(s).."
 
Well, considering the way you spell, that makes sense :o)
 
"Not everyone in this world wants a "large" piece, and I think if the artist is truly dedicated to his art and work, he wouldn't mind doing a small piece."
 
Michelangelo and Da Vinci weren't drawing 2 square inch tribals. And still they were truly dedicated to their art and work.
 
"I understand minimums and why they charge."
 
That's because we, tattoo artists, love easy money that we put high minimal prices. 15 years ago, tattoos were much cheaper. Tin Tin, Filip Leu or Guy Aitchison were working for less than 100 euros an hour. Today, it's 300.
 
Believe me, the only reason for that is that we like money.
 
Cheers.


Posted By: Adam
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

As you said, it's a small tattoo that shouldn't cost much.
True.
Think from his view point:
This bitch is making me set up all of my shit for something that is practically nothing.

Even if you just wanted a dot, you need to buy an hour of time.

You could think of a larger tattoo that you want.
Wait, save, and come up with a large piece.
Buy several hours of his time,
and when he is finished with your piece,
consider the small insignificant tattoos that can be done after
to be free.


I would have ton concur on this. Generally shop minimums aren't about what you're getting, but the time you're keeping them from doing something else. All the prep work and tear down time is eating away at a slot that could be getting filled by someone else getting a larger, more expensive piece. I know a lot of tattoo artists that generally keep minimums (higher than $100) just to keep from doing smaller work. Some of the big name guys in the industry take $100+ just as a down payment to make an appointment and won't do anything less than 5+hour pieces.

Sometimes you need to look through the other side of the glass to see the picture.

Another idea though is just to wait until you have an idea for something that you want that is bigger, and then just tack on the jigsaw piece. 2-fer-1 =)

One last point is kinda where tattoobox is coming from. If you want a dot, or a line, then you're more that correct in being able to get it, but it's not art that a tattoo artist would want to do. Their name is associated with all of their work. If you took your profession, would you sign your name to something that was, to you, extremely mediocre? Probably not.

That's where there's the difference between a person that does tattoos and a tattoo artist.

.: Adam


-------------


Posted By: cheddar head
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 7:54pm
The minimum that I would get tattooed is a good piece



Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by Adam



I would have ton concur on this. Generally shop minimums aren't about what you're getting, but the time you're keeping them from doing something else. All the prep work and tear down time is eating away at a slot that could be getting filled by someone else getting a larger, more expensive piece. I know a lot of tattoo artists that generally keep minimums (higher than $100) just to keep from doing smaller work. Some of the big name guys in the industry take $100+ just as a down payment to make an appointment and won't do anything less than 5+hour pieces.

Sometimes you need to look through the other side of the glass to see the picture.

Another idea though is just to wait until you have an idea for something that you want that is bigger, and then just tack on the jigsaw piece. 2-fer-1 =)

One last point is kinda where tattoobox is coming from. If you want a dot, or a line, then you're more that correct in being able to get it, but it's not art that a tattoo artist would want to do. Their name is associated with all of their work. If you took your profession, would you sign your name to something that was, to you, extremely mediocre? Probably not.

That's where there's the difference between a person that does tattoos and a tattoo artist.

.: Adam
 
Ok, then let's present the complete other side of the mirror.
 
A tattoo artist works a certain amount of hours in the week. In my case, I need to clean up the shop, talk with people, draw projects, sterilize, prepare workstation, clean up workstation after tattoo, pierce, buy my supplies, accountancy ...
 
So let's count what I need to do to tattoo a little piece. Let's say that for one tattoo I do, I'll anwer to the questions of two customers, twice 10 mins (one will leave without doing anything). Then, make a drawing and a little transfer, 5 mins. Then, prepare workstation, 10 mins (I'm slow, but everything is REALLY clean and it takes time). Then, welcome you, put transfer, blah blah to unstress you, 5 mins. Then, 10 mins to do the tattoo, 5 mins to explain aftercare AND clean up my workstation. Add to it the time to sterilize your tubes, and your prorata about cleaning up the shop, and you've got a precise idea.
 
If I want to keep minimal standards for my work, avoid flash, talk with people, be clean and keep everything as sterile as it's supposed to be for your health, I need time for it. Actually, doing mainly medium or big size works, I almost never make more than two appointments a day, but would I work in a street shop, trying to keep a certain standard would mean that I'd not be able to do more than four or five tattoos a day. If my minimum is 100 dollars, it's going to be 400 or 500 dollars a day.
 
If I'm a scratcher working in a street shop and doing 20 debilians a day, and if my minimum is 30 dollars, then I'll make more or less the same money, but for your 30 dollars, chances are high that you'll end up with scars (have to go fast so I'll push more when I tattoo), shitty flash (choose a design in the book, FAST, look at the queue behind you), and illnesses (cum'on, 5 mins to switch customer, I've just the time to change needles, tube, spray your chair with water, cuz alcohol costs too much)...
 
And yeah, it's the way it works. Quality shops, 80 to 100 euros/dollars as minimum, shitty shops, 20 or 30 dollars/euros as a minimum.
 
You get what you pay for.


Posted By: ihaveonlyme
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 8:38pm
While on the subject the guy I'm learning to pierce from said he sat down with my tattoo artist(his friend) and figured out how much it costs in materials alone for one tattoo. I think he said for one tattoo it was around $20 or something like that. And you also have to remember that artists don't get to pocket all that money. There are two ways to do it(that I've seen). You either give half of everything you make to the owner and they pay for supplies or you pay rent for a booth then you pay for your own supplies. Yes items like Q-tips, vaseline, paper towels, etc. are cheap but it's the amount that you have to buy. One law in Montana for piercings is you have enough supplies on hand to do a certain amount of piercings. I can't think of the number right now but I will find out. Bottom line is, even if someone is having a bad month at a shop they still have to have enough supplies at all  times to pierce/tattoo a certain amount of people.

-------------
You might not share my views on politics, religion, or several other notable topics; if you ever attain my level of knowledge, you will, though.


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 9:08pm
Supplies are not the problem. Supplies are almost free. Needles are 20 cents each, and a tattoo will cost like 1 or 2 dollars in supplies. It's only the work. If I work for 100 $ an hour and if I've got the choice between working one more hour on a big piece or doing a little piece that, for 10 mins of tattoo, will involve one hour of work, I'll charge 100 $ as well for the little work. And if I don't even want to do that little work, I'll ask 200 $ for it.
 
Today, a woman asked me for a little tattoo on her foot, with wines, and letters all around it. Five letters, for every dog she has, plus her husband close to the toes. I simply refuse that such kind of shit may come out of my shop. Plus I was busy tattooing. So I answered "200 euros".


Posted By: MonStarr
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 9:26pm
Tattoos are high in price now these days and i think that's good because artist are finally getting the money they deserve for their amazing talent.
In 2011 i'm getting my zombie sleeve finished by a guy named Roman Abrego and just for 8hours its $1,000. i think saving up for a tattoo is the best way to go.



-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 9:56pm
Monstarr, with more people thinking like you, it would take even less time to trade my 5 series BMW against a Porsche.


Posted By: CheapPerfume
Date Posted: December/21/2009 at 10:03pm
I also kind of think, as a client, that you will consider more thoroughly pieces that you want to get if you're being asked to pay higher prices for them. You'll treat each piece as an investment, instead of an impulse buy, and probably cherish it more.

Between the time I have to wait until I can get them, and the cost they will probably be, I am thinking very hard about the details and cannot wait until I can finally get my two tattoos that I want.


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 12:23am
Ah. Rouslan I missed you. I actually got to talk about you the other month when my mother in law brought up your story and I got to yell "I knew that douchebag before all this!"
Lol :)

Yes, my spelling is horrendous. Blame it on my Blackberry typing or me being a peon. I will take both insults from you.

I think I said somewhere when someone pointed out that the artist has to set up equipment and supplies I thought, well, okay. That makes a lot more sense now, and I don't have a problem with it. I am sorry I don't want a large piece on my body at this moment, you know, I am doing that whole thinking about stuff before making a lifelong permanent decision on what I want my large pieces to be.

And of course the artist wouldn't want to do that as "his" art, but most artists have to do things they are not excited about. Some artists are lucky enough to be branded in one "Type" of tattoo and that is what all the customers come for, others are not. If my artist wants to deny me getting this tattoo, for sure let him. I will wait until I get a larger piece (Which would not be years down the road) or maybe get a medium tattoo that I have been planning on getting anyways.

I also think a artist shouldn't turn down work however.

This thread was in no way a rant to diss the shop, nor the artist, who agreed to do it cheaper for me himself because we know each other.




-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 11:43am
"I also think a artist shouldn't turn down work however."
 
That's probably because you still haven't understood the meaning of the word "artist".
 
"Some artists are lucky enough to be branded in one "Type" of tattoo and that is what all the customers come for"
 
It has nothing to do with luck, it's in most cases a lifetime involvement.
 
Try to figure out why Paul Booth is fully booked for the next two years, at 300 dollars an hour and only in his style. It's probably because some day, he started to say "fuck you" to people coming in for tribals. He started to draw his own stuff, paint, put it on his walls, and say to people that were coming to get tattoos that it's that, or nothing.
 
You probably don't understand that when you start to do that in any tattoo shop, it's always a big loss. Shitty tattoos are easy money, everybody likes money. And it's precisely what defines an artist that money doesn't come on the first place, that art comes as the central pillar of his life.
 
That's precisely why an ARTIST will turn down most works. Shops that don't turn down work are street shops.
 
 


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by TattooBox

"I also think a artist shouldn't turn down work however."
 
That's probably because you still haven't understood the meaning of the word "artist".
 
"Some artists are lucky enough to be branded in one "Type" of tattoo and that is what all the customers come for"
 
It has nothing to do with luck, it's in most cases a lifetime involvement.
 
Try to figure out why Paul Booth is fully booked for the next two years, at 300 dollars an hour and only in his style. It's probably because some day, he started to say "fuck you" to people coming in for tribals. He started to draw his own stuff, paint, put it on his walls, and say to people that were coming to get tattoos that it's that, or nothing.
 
You probably don't understand that when you start to do that in any tattoo shop, it's always a big loss. Shitty tattoos are easy money, everybody likes money. And it's precisely what defines an artist that money doesn't come on the first place, that art comes as the central pillar of his life.
 
That's precisely why an ARTIST will turn down most works. Shops that don't turn down work are street shops.
 
 


Rouslan... i think i'm  in love with you. Come live with me? :P


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by TattooBox

 
That's probably because you still haven't understood the meaning of the word "artist".
 

It has nothing to do with luck, it's in most cases a lifetime involvement.
 


'One man's trash is another man's treasure' : it also works vice-versa

Some doctors specialize in hearts, others in brains, and others on feet;
but no doctor works on every part of the body.
Some mechanics specialize in transmissions, other in body repair, and others on tires;
but no mechanic works on every part of all automobiles.
This is much like tattooing.



-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 9:43pm

Sure Felonious.

When you're not able to draw realistic stuff, you "specialize" in old school and tribal.
And when you're not able to draw at all, you "specialize" in flash.
 
Maybe you should consider as an option to "specialize" talking about what you're familiar with.


Posted By: CheapPerfume
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 9:58pm
I actually was under the impression that you two were on the same page. lol


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/22/2009 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by TattooBox

Sure Felonious.

When you're not able to draw realistic stuff, you "specialize" in old school and tribal.
And when you're not able to draw at all, you "specialize" in flash.
 
Maybe you should consider as an option to "specialize" talking about what you're familiar with.



I was quoting/paraphrasing Erick Alayon with the doctor and mechanic analogy.
I don't think it's too far off from the truth.

When you're not able to perform surgery, you might do fine as a physician,
and if you aren't cut out to be a doctor at all, you could always be a nurse.
If you aren't mechanically inclined enough to rebuild an engine,
you can always work at Jiffy Lube. 

I wouldn't expect an artist to be able to pack black in large areas, do a portrait of Jesus that has eyes that follow you, draw a bar code that scans, cover any tattoo with any other tattoo as if it was never there, fine line, smoothly shade, crosshatch, hand tap, rub ink into wounds, and be the best at all of these on every part of the body with scar tissue meaning nothing and yet still manage to be the best cosmetic tattooer for lips, eye liner, eye shadow, areola touch ups, and be able to blend any skin blemish.

Sorry for the run-on sentence, but it's not possible;
no one is.


-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:43am
Yeah, your sentence is quite long. Actually, the best tattoo artists are perfectly able to perform any (possible) kind of work you included in it. A guy like Boris from Hungary, for instance, has been doing any work in any style at top level for almost 10 years now.
 
And if your treasure is shitty work (which is the case), if you're thinking that house painters and painters are doing the same job, then I'm fine with it, but please don't come with your blindness as the basis of your logics...


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 1:15pm
You're talking out of your ass now.

-------------


Posted By: xevious
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 1:41pm
so you won't do small tattoos at all rouslan? I have no problem with it. I'd rather do small tattoos than large ones sometimes. As it is I prefer tattoos that are around 1-2 hands wide, but if all I have coming in is small heart tattoos, I'm fine with that.

I did two pinky fingernail sized hearts yesterday. Had I refused them, I wouldve walked out of the shop last night with nothing.

Oh, and I find it hard to tattoo over stretch marks and scars myself.

-------------
I have titties.


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

You're talking out of your ass now.



I agree with you about it being used as an excuse,
but I added in the part about scanable barcodes,
as a bullshit clause,
because to the best of my knowledge;
NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THIS


-------------


Posted By: freakychild
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 2:50pm
under the logic displayed here... about not wanting to do small, basically 'worthless' tattoos...

i wonder how many tattooists turn away doing finger work....

surely, the index knuckle of my hand is smaller than the size of the piece that the OP wants...

Rouslan, have you ever tattooed A finger (just one, like a thumb or a tattooed wedding ring... not part of a phrase or word)?

how about a lip?

maybe, you've had a customer come in and have his or her tongue tattooed?  (yes, i know full well that tongue tattoos dont stay... i've had mine done 4 times with different designs)

if you can answer yes to any of those, then... well... you've kinda blown your arguement against you not wanting to do small work when you could be doing large work....
as a tattoo artist, who's been doing it as long as you have, we all know that at some point, the chances are great that you have done one or all of those things...  many times over...

on that logic... i would never do a navel, tongue, eyebrow, lobe, etc piercing again... cause i want to focus on the art of play piercings, corsets, photoshoots, etc....

but, i can't do that now can i?

gotta make that money... gotta pay my bills...


what i'm getting at is this...

i know some amazing artists, who put out some truly great work, but refuse to get pigeon holed into one type of tattoo...
so, they work at 'street shops', doing whatever comes through the door... within reason, of course...
it sounds very much like you're condemning tattooist who do small, "shitty" work (your words, not mine)....

why?

what's the point of that?

 if they see a piece come through the door, and they have nothing else to do (maybe because of a slow day, or a small town) why not do the piece?  it's money in the pocket... just cause you did a small outline of a puzzle piece doesn't mean you have to put it in your portfolio....
i sure as shit dont put pictures of every tongue piercing or eyebrow piercing i've done in my portfolio...

just because you've found yourself in a situation that you can easily turn away small work and have large work fill the place, doesn't mean everyone is in that situation... or for that matter, chooses to be in that situation, even if they have the opportunity...


-------------
http://www.helltrash.com">


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 4:50pm
I must agree with Freaky.

Rouslan at first had a great point that tattoo is an art form but now i'm thinking about it... you're getting paid to tatto on anouther persons skin, getting paid for advertisment and getting paid to be able to continue your art form... that's a pretty sweet deal, especially in your situation Rouslan where i'm sure you have ran out of personal canvas and have people paying you to use theirs.

You as an artist have every right to turn down work but as tattoo is also your job you should do the service detailed in your job which is too tattoo people. If you were that devoted to the art form you wouldn't be charging people to use their skin, if anything you would be paying them for giving you the chance to express yourself. All this seems a little holier than thou, you're only a tattoo artist and that's nothing special the same as all the cartoonists and animators that work throughout the world.


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by ZombiePhlegm

If you were that devoted to the art form you wouldn't be charging people to use their skin....  that's nothing special the same as all the cartoonists and animators that work throughout the world.


So, what you're saying is:  Felonious Drunk is the shit?



-------------


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:07pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

Originally posted by ZombiePhlegm

If you were that devoted to the art form you wouldn't be charging people to use their skin....  that's nothing special the same as all the cartoonists and animators that work throughout the world.


So, what you're saying is:  Felonious Drunk is the shit?



the shit on the bottom on my boot maybe... I should seriously clean that gunk off...


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:13pm
You don't like my cartoons?

-------------


Posted By: wormbuffet
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

You don't like my cartoons?


all hail felonious!

edit: this means I LIKE YOUR CARTOONS.

-------------


http://www.mmarly.tumblr.com - RAW TUMBLR SHIT


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

You don't like my cartoons?


I've not seen any of them. Even though I am now interested, you mind linking me some?

(this is what happens when I go cold turky on emotes!)


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:24pm
My cartoons are barely started never mind finished. 

-------------


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

My cartoons are barely started never mind finished. 


you've managed to confuse me well and truely!


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:40pm
Do you have a youtube account?
my screen name is davithalamuel


-------------


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

Do you have a youtube account?
my screen name is davithalamuel


Jules! Where's my guiness!

that was plenty entertaining, I must say i'm a little dissapointed though, I expected more videos.


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:51pm
I had legal problems on other videos because of slander and libel.
If you add me, I can add you to my private list so you can watch them.


-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by xevious

so you won't do small tattoos at all rouslan? I have no problem with it. I'd rather do small tattoos than large ones sometimes. As it is I prefer tattoos that are around 1-2 hands wide, but if all I have coming in is small heart tattoos, I'm fine with that.

I did two pinky fingernail sized hearts yesterday. Had I refused them, I wouldve walked out of the shop last night with nothing.

Oh, and I find it hard to tattoo over stretch marks and scars myself.
 
It's not that I don't do little tattoos at all, but at the moment I'm lucky enough to have a shop where I can choose what I want to do. I have some big works in progress, and I much rather invest time and energy on that.
 
Little tattoos can be very interesting and even challenging from a graphical point of view when people are open minded, but an idiot asking for a little tribal, star or chinese letter...
 
So I'll certainly not say to such customers "jerk off from my shop", I'll be much more on a line like "com'on, don't do stupid, all idiots on the beach have that kind of tattoos and you don't want to look like them, don't you? You want a tattoo to be personnal, to be original, to be custom ... you get a tattoo to be different, and try to think about it, you talk about money, but out of the cash you'll make in the next 10 years, most will finish in the trashcan, and very few will still be on you so wether you get a nice tattoo in my shop or in another good custom shop of the area, I don't give a shit, I'm here to help you to work on a nice and original project, but please don't ask me to put on you some shit you'll regret in 3 months".
 
And it works. Some people - very few - are scared, but most see that I tend to be serious, and if, let's say, 80% of your 50 or 60 euros pieces end up in 200 euros tattoos ... you see my point I guess.
 
On the other hand, I don't see tattoo as a business but as a way of life, and sometimes for a 200 or 250 euros tattoo I'll invest 5 or 6 hours of drawing, and I'll tattoo for 6 hours, so ... at the end of the month I'm not always rich, but I progress quite fast, people are happy from the work they get here, and I can eat and be my own boss so it's just good like that.


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by felonious drunk

Originally posted by felonious drunk

You're talking out of your ass now.



I agree with you about it being used as an excuse,
but I added in the part about scanable barcodes,
as a bullshit clause,
because to the best of my knowledge;
NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THIS
 
Barcodes just translate in 10 digit numbers. I know somebody who has a scanable vodka barcode. You just have to do it big enough, of course if it's tiny it's going to be unfonctionnal, but with proper size it works.


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by TattooBox

Originally posted by felonious drunk

Originally posted by felonious drunk

You're talking out of your ass now.



I agree with you about it being used as an excuse,
but I added in the part about scanable barcodes,
as a bullshit clause,
because to the best of my knowledge;
NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THIS
 
Barcodes just translate in 10 digit numbers. I know somebody who has a scanable vodka barcode. You just have to do it big enough, of course if it's tiny it's going to be unfonctionnal, but with proper size it works.



Universal product codes don't have to be 10 digit.
What is important is that the modulus is an even number.
(I do believe that 10 is the maximum modulus though {but don't quote me on that})
A bar code being larger does make it more likely to scan
because it lessens the effect of error),
but I don't think you exactly understand how complex and precise
different bar codes can be.


-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by ZombiePhlegm

I must agree with Freaky.

Rouslan at first had a great point that tattoo is an art form but now i'm thinking about it... you're getting paid to tatto on anouther persons skin, getting paid for advertisment and getting paid to be able to continue your art form... that's a pretty sweet deal, especially in your situation Rouslan where i'm sure you have ran out of personal canvas and have people paying you to use theirs.

You as an artist have every right to turn down work but as tattoo is also your job you should do the service detailed in your job which is too tattoo people. If you were that devoted to the art form you wouldn't be charging people to use their skin, if anything you would be paying them for giving you the chance to express yourself. All this seems a little holier than thou, you're only a tattoo artist and that's nothing special the same as all the cartoonists and animators that work throughout the world.
 
Short answer : a Michelin 3 stars restaurant is always the result of the work of an artist in the kitchen (or a team of artists). It's a restaurant. They make food. Still, if you come in and ask a big mac and a cola, they won't serve you. See the point?
 
Then. Don't believe I consider myself as an artist. I don't have 3 stars, nor 2, not even one. I don't pretend I'm so much better than a fast food. I'm just trying to learn to cook, because I don't want to spend my life puting bread on ketchup on mustard on onions on meat on chease on bread.
 
I think I can do better than that, and if you don't see the difference between good food and a burger restaurant, then I'm sorry but to my eyes it's like talking about music with deaf people.


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:23pm
Felonious, I don't feel that the barcode subject is that much interesting, but here in europe they're different, and actually we use a norm, EAN, that isn't the same as UPC (even if there is some compatibility), but honnestly I don't give a shit about barcode, and barcode tattoos are the most boring stuff I ever did because 1) it was a clever idea for the first guy who did it but since it's absolutely not original 2) it's boring to do and 3) despite of the fact it looks easy to do, you have to focus a lot on parallelism and thickness of lines, and it's easy to mess up.


Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by TattooBox

 
Short answer : a Michelin 3 stars restaurant is always the result of the work of an artist in the kitchen (or a team of artists). It's a restaurant. They make food. Still, if you come in and ask a big mac and a cola, they won't serve you. See the point?
 
Then. Don't believe I consider myself as an artist. I don't have 3 stars, nor 2, not even one. I don't pretend I'm so much better than a fast food. I'm just trying to learn to cook, because I don't want to spend my life puting bread on ketchup on mustard on onions on meat on chease on bread.
 
I think I can do better than that, and if you don't see the difference between good food and a burger restaurant, then I'm sorry but to my eyes it's like talking about music with deaf people.


the metaphors got a bit much, your point got a little lost in them. i'm not questioning quality at all, that's not the point in what I was saying.


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:33pm
Before I give up the metaphors;
A surgeon could probably diagnose an illness,
but I would see a physician to avoid malpractice.

It's easy to drop a subject when you're wrong,
but then again; it's just as easy to say touche. 



edit:
Despite it being phased out due to it being obsolete,
 I use UPC because it is the standard for bar codes.
EAN are more up to date, but the fundamentals are the same.
I find bar codes interesting because I was challenged by my trade school teacher to draw one.
It took hours to draw a bar code that scanned on paper.
                          (it didn't scan the next day because of a smudge that could only be observed with a magnifying glass) 


-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:36pm
Nope Zombie, you were explaining me that as a tattoo shop, I have to do any kind of work I'm asked for. I answer you that as a business I'm still free to choice my customers as long as I manage to get enough or as long as I agree to loose money on the meaningless works to focus on the works that will allow me to improve.
 
As a side remark, as a shop owner, I sometimes also ask myself the question like that : do I really want to see that tattoo coming out of my shop? Do I really want to tattoo the shitty tribal that guy asked me to do as it is on his 2x4 inch paper ? Do I really want to tattoo knuckles that will end up shitty in 90% of cases? Do I really want to tattoo that idiot that will absolutely not take care of his tattoo and that won't come for touch ups and display an image of my work I'll be ashamed of?
 
So, in all the cases listed above, I'm 1000% certain that it's just BAD ADVERTISING for a shop. A big work allows you to see customers a few times in a row, to control your quality. And when the only works people see from you are good, because you did your maximum and because you were able to check the healing and do all touch ups, then I think you're really able to build an image.


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:43pm
^ true that

-------------


Posted By: TattooBox
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by freakychild


1) "if you can answer yes to any of those, then... well... you've kinda blown your arguement against you not wanting to do small work when you could be doing large work.... "
 
It's not because I was doing wrong when I started to tattoo that I have to do wrong all my life.

2) "gotta make that money... gotta pay my bills..."
 
Do you really NEED all that money? The average income of tattoo artists here in France is far above the average income of population, typically 3 or 4 times. Do I really NEED that? I don't think so, as long as I eat I'm just fine.

3 "i know some amazing artists, who put out some truly great work, but refuse to get pigeon holed into one type of tattoo... "
I don't see the point. Being good doesn't means you have to focus on one style only.
 
4) "it sounds very much like you're condemning tattooist who do small, "shitty" work (your words, not mine)....

why?"

Because a lot of tattoo artists are just mediocre. They give up anything for easy money. I think that as a tattoo artist, you have to do your maximum. Most people in the business don't think the same. They don't have passion. They're mediocre. I respect everybody who has a positive attitude, who's trying to improve. My work I simply love, and I just hate those who do that the same way they would be working in a factory or in a fast food.

5) "if they see a piece come through the door, and they have nothing else to do (maybe because of a slow day, or a small town) why not do the piece?  it's money in the pocket... just cause you did a small outline of a puzzle piece doesn't mean you have to put it in your portfolio...."

Cool. I do it as well. And since it's a slow day, I do it, don't charge more, and will just try to improve on my miniature skills. I'll be able to spend easily 3 or 4 hours on a little piece. Anyway, I love my work so... what would I do as interesting as my job when my only customer of the day will leave my shop? Post endlessly on forums? So, why not take advantage of that moment to push (again) your limits? Why, if not by - again - mediocrity?
 
Look at Anil Gupta's works and you'll see what an artist can do with a puzzle piece. He EVEN puts them in his portfolio. With pride.
 
Today, I did a Jesus Christ in a detail of a tattoo. I had the time for it (it's obvious since I post all that bs here). I've spent 15 mins on a 1cm x 8 mm bit of tattoo, just for the fun of it. I'm not good enough to do miniatures, but one day I'll understand how it works.

6) "just because you've found yourself in a situation that you can easily turn away small work and have large work fill the place, doesn't mean everyone is in that situation... or for that matter, chooses to be in that situation, even if they have the opportunity..."
 
I've "found myself" in a situation I have created from scratch, in one year and a half, without anybody to teach me, starting at 36 years old and creating my own shop. Judging from what I've been able to do in those circumstances in such a short time, I necessarily look with some kind of ... sadness on those who're able to put so little energy on improving their skills, who sacrifice everything for easy money.
 
When I was a customer, before, I didn't saw it that clearly. But today, as a tattoo artist, I see it very clearly : 80 or 90% of the industry is filled up with mediocre assholes who just came for the easy ca$h.
 
I love too much my work to think - and say - anything else than FUCK THEM.



Posted By: ZombiePhlegm
Date Posted: December/23/2009 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by TattooBox

Nope Zombie, you were explaining me that as a tattoo shop, I have to do any kind of work I'm asked for. I answer you that as a business I'm still free to choice my customers as long as I manage to get enough or as long as I agree to loose money on the meaningless works to focus on the works that will allow me to improve.
 
As a side remark, as a shop owner, I sometimes also ask myself the question like that : do I really want to see that tattoo coming out of my shop? Do I really want to tattoo the shitty tribal that guy asked me to do as it is on his 2x4 inch paper ? Do I really want to tattoo knuckles that will end up shitty in 90% of cases? Do I really want to tattoo that idiot that will absolutely not take care of his tattoo and that won't come for touch ups and display an image of my work I'll be ashamed of?
 
So, in all the cases listed above, I'm 1000% certain that it's just BAD ADVERTISING for a shop. A big work allows you to see customers a few times in a row, to control your quality. And when the only works people see from you are good, because you did your maximum and because you were able to check the healing and do all touch ups, then I think you're really able to build an image.


I do agree there but I also feel that it would be unfair to make judgements like that.

I'm very much too and fro on this, the side of me that loves art is screaming that you should do what you want to do but the other side is saying that as a tattoo artist you're resigned to do things that your customers want you to do, not what you want to do.


-------------

The Unbreakable!


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: December/24/2009 at 2:30pm








-------------


Posted By: Euphoric
Date Posted: December/27/2009 at 11:15pm
AGREED.
 
Leave my poor topic alone. lol


-------------
If I got a dollar for every time I repented the sin then committed the same crime, I'd be standing on top of the world today...


Posted By: CLOEYcorpse
Date Posted: January/18/2010 at 9:42pm
ha i was just browsing when i saw this post, on sunday i got the same tattoo your talking about (i think) and my tattoo'ist didnt charge me anything, as it was such a small piece, maybe you could try and get it down a little, or like everyone else suggested get another at the same time :) x




Posted By: jakethejake
Date Posted: February/16/2010 at 8:01pm
this may have been said.. and I'm not 100% good with what goes into a tattoo equipment wise.. but I have to think that even for a small tattoo there are sterilized one use parts(gloves/needles/etc) that need to be used regardless of the size..  and yes the artist needs to set up and tattoo you..

80 is a bit much.. but then again they have a minimum for a reason.


Posted By: felonious drunk
Date Posted: February/16/2010 at 8:10pm
If someone sets up my equipment, cleans everything up, and then gives me a blow job,
then I don't give a fuck about minimums.

I like drawing and coloring, I just hate wiping asses.


-------------


Posted By: xoerinxo
Date Posted: February/24/2010 at 10:07pm
do what feels right, if its too much maybe look for a different place? or explain to your guy how you feel and see what they'll say.
i get minimums, you pay for the setup and everything, but that is a little high.
 


Posted By: toxic_sunset
Date Posted: March/16/2010 at 5:01am
Gah, I had a shop once tell me I had to pay a $100 minimum for a touchup on a tattoo that the artist had done at a previous shop. WTF?!

 $80 seems to be becoming the new shop minimum from what I've seen....$50 has been the standard though.
 I have done what CLOEYcorpse mentioned before--pay for a larger tattoo, and the artist will usually throw in the smaller one as long as it doesn't require a different set-up. 



Print Page | Close Window